tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post5672867148697522366..comments2023-10-23T14:19:00.021-07:00Comments on Atheodox Jew: What I Mean When I Say I’m an “Atheist”Atheodox Jewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-4488740269981704172015-07-23T01:34:26.762-07:002015-07-23T01:34:26.762-07:00Hi Jodie - thanks for writing. I'm happy to ob...Hi Jodie - thanks for writing. I'm happy to oblige if I can. Feel free to write me at atheodox@gmail.com.<br /><br />Best,<br />AJAtheodox Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-79122570977511128452015-07-17T11:42:52.203-07:002015-07-17T11:42:52.203-07:00Hello Atheodox Jew,
I'm a reporter with a Jewi...Hello Atheodox Jew,<br />I'm a reporter with a Jewish community newspaper and am working on a story about observant Jews who are atheist or agnostic.<br /><br />I'd love to interview you anonymously. Would you be up for this? <br /><br />If so, we can find a way to exchange contact info.<br /><br />Thanks!<br />JAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11400069902486167834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-5247774092235193782015-02-10T07:18:28.008-08:002015-02-10T07:18:28.008-08:00Hi AJ,
yeh, obviously don't think any of the...Hi AJ, <br /><br />yeh, obviously don't think any of the arguments are sound (as i don't believe in God), but I do find it interesting to formalize theist arguments and find the the holes or the premises that are false or at least controversial. <br /><br />1. i completely agree, i am not likely to fall for a bait and switch. I just don't know any compelling arguments for the existence of anything like the judeo/christian god. This is more like a compelling argument for some sort of creator. The numbers suggest either it is just incredibly lucky that the physical constants were as they are, there are so many planets and solar systems that it makes sense that there is some planet that can support life, or there is some sort of creator. <br />2. I think this article explains why the probabilities are compelling. http://web.mit.edu/rog/www/papers/fine_tuning.pdf. I mean yes, we could have just been incredibly lucky (i think we probably were). But, of all of the arguments for the existence of a creator, I find the incredibly small likelihood that there could be a planet that supports any life (esp. intelligent life) the most convincing. why do you think it is overwhelmingly more plausible that we got really lucky than that there is some intelligent designer (creator)?<br />3. logic is a formal system, like math. In fact, in order to prove that 2+2=4 you need to give an inductive proof of arithmetic in standard logic. Logic is a system that helps us point out consistencies and inconsistencies and valid and invalid logical forms in natural language by giving us a more precise language to translate natural language into. certainly if you are clever enough you can give arguments for anything, but they won't be good arguments and clever people will be able to point out the arguments that aren't good. our conclusion should not be to not trust logic (or the results that any logical system gives us), rather our conclusion should be to be really careful in parsing and assessing arguments as to make sure that the arguments are good ones. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-34565765213429721732015-02-07T23:40:22.207-08:002015-02-07T23:40:22.207-08:00Hi AA,
A few thoughts:
1) Even if we concede tha...Hi AA,<br /><br />A few thoughts:<br /><br />1) Even if we concede that there had to have been conscious intervention (i.e. God) to create a universe that supports life, that still says nothing about how/whether this God relates to us, or how we should relate to God. And it certainly says nothing about religious depictions of God and the umpteen expectations about what God supposedly wants us to do. Again, beware the "bait and switch" trick.<br /><br />2) I'm surprised the author didn't mention probability here. What are the odds that any of us are who we are? One spermatozoon in 250 million, on average? And that of course doesn't include the countless generations that preceded us, over millions of years, each of which had to survive and reproduce just exactly at the right time in order to lead up to who we are today. The odds are beyond staggering! But yet here we are. And here the universe is too. Meaning, everything that exists is by nature ridiculously improbable. But yet it exists.<br /><br />3) Never mistake logic for reality. Logic is a mental construction. You can, if you're clever enough, make people believe that it "must be" logically that the sky is really hot pink, not blue. But when we're overwhelmed with logical arguments, so many seemingly intelligent words, just remember to keep looking up at the sky and do a reality check! That's kinda how I see all these God "proofs."<br /><br />Best, AJAtheodox Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-60544907037958857822015-02-02T20:04:50.781-08:002015-02-02T20:04:50.781-08:00Hi AJ,
Anonymous Agnostic here. I was reading y...Hi AJ, <br /><br />Anonymous Agnostic here. I was reading your bait and switch post and your mass revelation post and I thought that you might enjoy the linked loosely formalized arguments for the existence of God and the replies. Number 5, the fine tuning argument, is the one that I find most compelling. <br /><br />http://www.randomhouse.com/pantheon/authors/goldstein/36%20Arguments.pdf<br /><br />Thanks for your earlier response, <br />"AA"<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-17769343883723157892014-05-24T23:23:31.541-07:002014-05-24T23:23:31.541-07:00Hi "AA",
Good comments/questions.
Why ...Hi "AA",<br /><br />Good comments/questions.<br /><br />Why not choose another community? Honestly - comfort and a feeling of "at-homeness" in the Orthodox community is a big part of it. And the truth is, we really enjoy our lives. We have great neighbors, I like observant life (for the most part!), and I enjoy the robust Torah discussion. So you could say I find that it's worth the "crazy". Plus, I have a nice circle of friends with whom I can be intellectually open. That helps a great deal. And then there's the idealistic rebel in me who wants to help reform (lower case "r") Orthodox Judaism from the inside... That said, I do think often about spending more time with other branches of Judaism, but the opportunity hasn't come up so much - yet.<br /><br />About moral disagreement, there's plenty that I disagree with about the charedi community which is less problematic or nonexistent in the more centrist-Othodox community. However, as an example I do very much disagree with the inherent sexism within Orthodoxy as a whole. It strikes me as deeply troubling when the system we look to for "inspiration" doesn't give women the same level of opportunity, legal status or say/influence as women have in the surrounding secular society. And I suppose that simply by living in the Orthodox world, I'm "aiding and abetting" the problem. But I do speak up about it to people, and generally I'm trying to be a force for common sense and rational thought. So hopefully God won't judge me too much over it! ;-)<br /><br />Thanks for writing,<br />AJAtheodox Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-69309241041557148632014-05-24T22:50:38.889-07:002014-05-24T22:50:38.889-07:00Could be. But it's all highly subjective and p...Could be. But it's all highly subjective and prone to self-suggestion, isn't it?Atheodox Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-57322383604784325262014-05-23T23:19:57.280-07:002014-05-23T23:19:57.280-07:00Dear Atheodox Jew,
I'm on board with a lot of...Dear Atheodox Jew,<br /><br />I'm on board with a lot of what you have said. I grew up as an Orthadox Jew, but I no longer practice. I don't believe that their is a God (I don't really have the belief that their is no God either) nor is the Jewish concept of God (or really any concept of God) a presence in my life. In addition, I understand the draw and value of the close knit community Orthodox Jewery can provide. As I have struggled with missing the traditions that i was brought up with and at the same time, disagreeing with many of the values that I was brought up with, my questions for you are as follows: 1. Why have you chosen to continue to practice Orthadoxy when you don't promote all of the values that the Torah seems to support? Why not choose another lifestyle with a close community that is more sympathetic to your values? 2. There are parts of living in an orthadox community that really bother me, morally speaking. I find it difficult to participate and help perpetuate a practice that I fundamentally disagree with in many ways. Have you found this to be difficult or perhaps you don't fundamentally disagree with any of the values that the Orthadox judaisim seems to support? <br /><br />These questions are not meant to be critical. I am just curious how you have managed to maintain your traditions without buying into the doctrine of the religion. <br /><br />Best, <br />Anonymous Agnostic<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-78701066520643453342014-01-27T11:45:58.365-08:002014-01-27T11:45:58.365-08:00Catching up here after a long absence.
We might k...Catching up here after a long absence.<br /><br />We might know about the Creator from the creation. Agreed. But we might also know about the Creator from the Creator's effort(s) to be known, and from our efforts to know the Creator. Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08976868079076669453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-72123299249772311162013-11-19T01:07:10.289-08:002013-11-19T01:07:10.289-08:00To add my two cents to this convrastion i am a fir...To add my two cents to this convrastion i am a firm heliever that the ultimate propose of all creation is the existence and perpetuation of conscious that is an elusive term to define but koolie alma lo pliegi it exsists it is therefor twisted to ask what is the point of conscious as it is not a means but the essence of all existence for this reason i stay within thr religios community despite being of the secondsons level of aethism because i believe in having lots of kids even at the cost of quality of life is a worthwhile act vafsi odenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-24563761273943956352013-11-18T23:16:51.587-08:002013-11-18T23:16:51.587-08:00Very interesting point. The thought did cross my m...Very interesting point. The thought did cross my mind as I was writing, but I always come back to a certain cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, there's God as "ineffable", completely beyond any human description. And on the other is the God of the Torah, who is not only described in very human terms (re: thought, emotion, actions) but based on the simple pshat in a number of places seems to be quasi-humanoid Himself! <br /><br />Now, of course I'm familiar with the term anthropomorphism and the notion of the Torah being given in the language of humans. But you can only take that so far. Even if God doesn't have hands, He has to "give" the Torah. Even if God doesn't have a mouth, He has to communicate to His prophets. Even if you want to completely darshen away anything remotely physical about God, once you start talking about a God who reveals Himself to a nation and enumerates a host of specific expectations and consequences in the form of the Torah, once you have any notion of Divine "will" or "intent", then by definition this God is no longer ineffable. It is possible (even obligatory) to "know" something about Him.Atheodox Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-84536089371233294752013-11-18T13:13:04.970-08:002013-11-18T13:13:04.970-08:00Do you think that some aspects of Judaism actually...Do you think that some aspects of Judaism actually promote this idea of what you describe as hard agnosticism?<br /><br />So much of what I was taught about God, from Jewish sources ranging from totally secular to Maimomaides to Chabad, focused on what God was NOT. God was not human or animal. God had no physical form. God had no beginning or end. God definitely wasn't Jesus. God had no physical limits. God wasn't something that we mere mortals could ever come close to understanding.Law momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01859590966207623757noreply@blogger.com