tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post9001409396974938059..comments2023-10-23T14:19:00.021-07:00Comments on Atheodox Jew: Who's Really the Frum "Skeptic"?Atheodox Jewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-3346004247878228612013-11-12T05:26:49.144-08:002013-11-12T05:26:49.144-08:00> To call me a "skeptic" assumes that...> To call me a "skeptic" assumes that the baseline "normal" is the belief that A, B and C are true: <br /><br />No, it means that the society around you accepts them as true, not that they're objectively true. If everyone in America accepted that chocolate ice cream is the original flavour that ever was and you don't think so based on reading you've done then you're a skeptic. The difference is you might be right.Mighty Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-80213690070336848342013-11-11T07:53:14.856-08:002013-11-11T07:53:14.856-08:00I mean that it's foundational claims are not t...I mean that it's foundational claims are not true.G*3https://www.blogger.com/profile/06104739087560005056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-35748160652885246322013-11-11T06:30:30.979-08:002013-11-11T06:30:30.979-08:00Like I wrote to John above, I was using this defin...Like I wrote to John above, I was using this definition of skeptic: "a person inclined to question or doubt accepted opinions".<br /><br />Very true about "doubt". Though "Judaism is incorrect" is a pretty broad statement. Do you mean specifically where it pertains to Biblical literalism and metaphysical claims, or do you think Judaism is incorrect in a more general sense? If the latter, maybe you can explain.Atheodox Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-22456977862337994212013-11-10T15:47:58.466-08:002013-11-10T15:47:58.466-08:00> To call me a "skeptic" assumes that...> To call me a "skeptic" assumes that the baseline "normal" is the belief that A, B and C are true:<br /><br />I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t think that’s what “skeptic” implies. To me, a “skeptic” is someone who approaches everything skeptically. Someone who expects all claims to be proven. So it’s not that the other person’s beliefs are normal, and I’m skeptical of them, but that I’m skeptical of everything, including those beliefs (and even my own). “Question everything, even this.”<br /><br />I have the same feeling towards the word “doubts” that you have towards “skeptic.”I’ve had many conversations with frum people (mostly online) who ask me about my doubts about Judaism. I don’t have doubts about Judaism. It’s not that I just need a few things cleared up, and I’ll be the same as any other frum person. I’m pretty sure that Judaism is incorrect.<br /><br />> … whereas we believe in an unbroken chain of Torah sages who've been saying the same thing for thousands of years. <br /><br />Refusing to admit when you’re wrong isn’t the same thing as being right.<br />G*3https://www.blogger.com/profile/06104739087560005056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-64760947863780536162013-11-10T07:11:26.520-08:002013-11-10T07:11:26.520-08:00John,
I guess it depends which definition of &quo...John,<br /><br />I guess it depends which definition of "skeptic" you're using. <br /><br />The first definition on Google is "a person inclined to question or doubt accepted opinions". So in that sense, a believing frum person could indeed be a skeptic. <br /><br />You're right - cynical is not the same as skeptical. A cynic is someone who doesn't trust people's motivations. A believing frum skeptic who's also a cynic would be a person who not only doubts "accepted opinions", e.g. regarding the age of the universe or the theory of evolution, but who also questions the honesty of scientists, assuming their findings to be biased by an anti-religious agenda.<br /><br /><i>Also a doubter means he doubts the truth claims being made. It doesn't mean the truth claims are true, only that there are those who claim it to be true.</i><br /><br />I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make here. <br /><br /><i>But maybe it makes some sense when a large majority of the surrounding society believes in something that you identify as not that.</i><br /><br />Good point. And BTW, I like "A-Flat Earthers". :-)Atheodox Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404924424040480039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760004395394142531.post-39361507277631744902013-11-10T01:26:36.464-08:002013-11-10T01:26:36.464-08:00I think this may just be semantics. My understandi...I think this may just be semantics. My understanding of a skeptic is that it is not equivalent to a cynic. A skeptic means someone who doesn't believe something without evidence. So being a frum skeptic wouldn't make any sense. It's an oxymoron. (Despite an awesome blog by that name that is not currently writing. I'm guessing he meant someone who lives a frum life but is skeptical nonetheless). Also a doubter means he doubts the truth claims being made. It doesn't mean the truth claims are true, only that there are those who claim it to be true.<br />I hear the argument that being called an atheist is silly. We don't identify as aflat-earhers (maybe that's a good name for a band. Get it. A flat. Ha ha). But maybe it makes some sense when a large majority of the surrounding society believes in something that you identify as not that. Especially when identifying as bright or something may be misunderstood. Ideally there would be a word for not believing in God that didn't mean not something. Perhaps naturalist, for those who hold that way, is a good term. Just my thoughts. Kol tuv.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13310234293587418486noreply@blogger.com